I recently heard someone decrying the state of the church saying that we are in a miserable condition because the world goes bad and then the church goes bad. There are perverts in the world and there are perverts in the church. Essentially, he said whatever the world does, the church in not long in following.
I have a slight problem with this idea and I think it has a deeper root than just perspective. Some of you may say that I’m splitting hairs, or trying to tell the difference between one week and seven days. Others might say this is six of one and half a dozen of the other; or just plain semantics. BUT, I think the problems we have in the world today are because of the church, not the other way around. I don’t think the church is following the world. The culture gets its queue from the cultus. The religious life of the world shapes it. Since we have abandoned righteous, holy living in the church, the world has followed and done the same. We shouldn’t be looking around at the wickedness of the world as a prod to live better lives (i.e. it’s so bad out there, at least I’m not doing that). When we see a wicked world, we must recognize that it is our fault, not Satan’s. If we will purify the church, the impact will be seen all around us.
You Think Too Much! 
I agree. The world is the world, the church is the church. The problem today is the fuzzying between these two, which isn’t the world’s fault.
I also agree, I would say that the world has gone bad, because the church has gone bad first. Churches tend to compromise to keep members happy, instead of helping them get right. After all it would require the church to stay right, right. I know that from personal experience.
Interesting point, Jeff. I think you may be right. We are supposed to be salt and light in our society – WE are supposed to be the preservative in the world. When the salt loses its savour (its effect) then it is good for nothing. Throughout the Bible, the Holy Spirit and godly people restrained the evil around them. When the church is raptured out, there will be no more salt and the world will quickly go on its merry way to Hell (no pun intended).
When the spiritual leadership of Israel (and thus by application, our nations – I’m from Canada) was corrupted, then the nation became corrupted shortly thereafter.
Jeremiah 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:15 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.
Bro Jeff,
I never quite thought about it the way you put it, but I think you are correct.
I think you can even see this in the book os Acts where you see Paul starting churhces and thus changing the culture to some extent. (i.e. Acts 19, church at Ephesus)
Hello, Jeff~
To tag after what Terry M. noted, Paul also addressed their culture when he spoke to them concerning their unknown god. He brought them Truth while addressing their culture.
While we shouldn’t fully embrace every aspect of current culture; we shouldn’t be so afraid of it that we salt ourselves. I think many times we alienate ourselves waiting for the unsaved to come to us on our own terms.
Just a thought.
Blessings!
Maybe I am misunderstanding your point, Bonnie, but I am sure Paul alienated himself from many at Athens! He mentioned their culture to preach against it, not to find some common ground. (Yes, he did mention something their poets said, but his reference to the unknown God was rebuking their idolatry.) He certainly did not endorse their culture.
Many today want to find some common ground with modern culture – that means being accepting of modern dance and theater (is there any good in that!?!), modern art (which would include idolatrous pictures, nudity, blaspemy), modern music (by that I don’t mean that something contemporary is in itself wrong – there are some really good musicians and godly groups out there – but I am referring to the mainstream music, the music of the world – whether it has a “Christian” label on it or not), and modern comedy and entertainment (blasphemous, suggestive, crude, unclean and impure, and all too often using God’s name in vain).
Hm, I think those that are to be salt and light in this world (ie. all true born again believers) would have more of an impact if we actually were that – which definitely means being separated from sin.
“You have to be different to make a difference. You cannot change anything by adding more of the same.” – Jim Berg.
the best way to purify the church so the world will be purified is to start in the pulpit(God is always right next inline is pastors) if pastors would just do there job and be right and not try to run the lives of their sheep and act like hitler, stalin, or any other dictator than the sheep would be more likely to fallow. Or if our pastors would set better examples for us sheep(ie step down in cases of fornication and other sin that would disqualify them from office) to many of our pulpits in america are full of perverts and other wicked dictators. Sheep fallow a loving voice and shephard they arent beat into submission like other animals. Sheep need love not hate. If our pastors/shephards are clean and right w/God than the sheep will fallow(because sheep only know how to falow) and then the world would fall into line right behind us.
LETS CLEAN OUT OUR PULPITS JEFF
Yea. What he said. I’m with anonymous. Only I wish he could spell.